Ohh.. That Explains It!You know, my buddy Alejo had commented to me on more than one occasion, during our frequent discussions about 4e, how the 4e DMG was really "not bad" and he'd quote me something that sounded even reasonable. I'd mention something back that was, to me, utterly unreasonable.
I'd also comment about the attitude and positions stated by the creators of D&D on blogs and other public venues. He would respond befuddled by that, since it seemed the "4e attitude" they were promoting online was notably different than the actual "GM Advice" in the 4e DMG.
In my opinion, not so much, but I also saw his point. What I would have said, actually, is that it seemed the DMG itself was divided. In one section it would talk about the importance of roleplaying scenes, in the very next it would suggest that you should skip over all that troublesome stuff as fast as possible so you could get to the next encounter. There were a ton of areas where the advice seemed positively bipolar.
Well, now it seems that at last we might have a reason why! Taking a look at
this thread on theRPGsite, besides mentioning what a piece of crap the new 4e version of Hommlet really is, it gets mentioned by someone there that huge swaths of text (apparently including various chapters in their entirety), were copied and pasted directly from the book "Dungeon Master for Dummies" (wiley publishing 2005). I kid you not.
That would, of course, explain it. The advice taken from that... erm.. erstwhile book would have been advice of a more generic nature, hearkening to older editions and attitudes, and not "4ncountar Uber Alles", and certainly not the quasi-forgista mentality of "D&D is only a glorified miniatures game, and we should focus everything on making it really be that". So those parts of the DMG that seem to actually give a shit about roleplaying, or empower the GM? You can probably thank whoever wrote "Dungeon Master for Dummies" (and the lazy fucks at Wizards who copy-pasted it) for that.
So, does anyone out there in proxyland actually own this book? Can this be confirmed?
RPGPundit
Currently Smoking: Stanwell Pipe of the Year Rhodesian + Hearth & Home's Mt.Marcy
Comments (7)
Ok, since you posted that blog entry based on information I provided, I'd like to distance myself from saying that "portions of the book were lifted straight" into the new DMG. That's not the case (although I documented a rather egregious exception of that kind in the same thread as regards the PHB).
What I said was that the DMG is an "uninspired re-hash" of the Wiley. So it's actually worse.
For what it's worth, I quote from the updated Wiley "Dungeon Master for Dummies" which Bill Slavicsek released for 4E in 2008 - it's from page 2 thereof.
"About This Revision
This book is a complete revision of the original Dungeon Master For Dummies,
updated to make use of the 4th Edition D&D rules. It doesn’t just update the
rules material, though. It’s revised to speak to new assumptions about the
role of the Dungeon Master and the way he or she interacts with the other
players. Frankly, it’s also rewritten to remove what would otherwise have
been a duplication of what’s already in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. The original
Dungeon Master For Dummies did such a good job of explaining how to be
a Dungeon Master that the 4th Edition Dungeon Master’s Guide learned from
its example and included a lot of the same kinds of advice!"
So there you have it, from the horse's mouth.
Now, just to provide material for other people to discuss.From page 67 of the first Dungeon Master for Dummies (written for 3.5). Compare and contrast with 4E DMG (as quoted in several posts here: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=10571 )
"INCREASING THE FUN QUOTIENT
The DM can increase the game group’s fun quotient by following a few simple
principles, as we describe in the following list:
X Understand the players. Although discussing what they might want out
of the game is a good start, a DM also has to observe indirect cues and
play patterns to fully understand the players.
X Provide something for everyone. When you figure out what the players
want (through discussion, observation, or both), you can adjust the
adventures to cater to each of them. Depending on the group, you can
deal with this collectively (by adjusting the play style) or individually
(by providing encounters that speak to each player in turn).
X Maintain a high level of energy. Players take their cues from the DM, so
you need to keep your enthusiasm up, your level of energy high, and
your sense of excitement focused and on track. The players will respond
and perform likewise.
X Move it, move it, move it. Pacing is everything. Never take away the players’
sense of control over the actions of their characters, but develop the
skills to nudge them along or reshape the adventure to minimize slow
periods, keep the action going, and help bring the players back to the fun.
Periodically look around the gaming table and ask yourself this question: Are
we having fun? If the answer is “yes,” don’t worry too much about pacing and
action. If your group is enjoying a long negotiation with a swaggering bugbear,
let the scene play out. If you look around and see players fiddling with
their dice, looking bored, or starting to get distracted, the answer must be a
resounding “no.” That’s when you need to make an adjustment, move the
adventure along, and help the players find the fun. When all else fails, have a
wandering monster show up, or have a villain kick in the door, or have some
other event occur to get the group back to the action."
Great find, Windjammer. This is an intellectual trainwreck of the highest proportions.
I'm sorry, but ... I just don't get it.
I know I'm fighting a lost cause - at least here.So what.
It's indeed not a masterpiece digging out wise sentences from works others have published (whether that is really the case or not ... I dunno. The sequences I've read here to me are more or less common knowledge I've heard in countless discussions with other GMs who may or may not have read the book. We're in germany here. So chances are good, that they have NOT read the book). I presonally wouldn't critize the 4e developers for including such hints though. They are definitely a step forward from what I know from 3.5 and before.
I personally also don't remember sequences from the DMG, which encourage me to skip ahead over such moments and get on with the system-relevant solution of actions. But I've not digested every little bit of the 4e DMG. In the end it doesn't matter to me. I've seen enough that I know what I want.
As to the glorified tabletop aspect? Well what can I say. If you want to play a tabletop with it, you can. I've seen it often enough with 3.5 and yes. You can do it even BETTER with 4e. But the point is, that you can do a lot more. So think what you want.
And that GMs who actually work with the system might develop differing views? Seems reasonable to me, too.
Agreed, except for that the DMG "suggest[s] that you should skip over all that troublesome stuff as fast as possible so you could get to the next encounter." It doesn't.
Exactly, Patriarch.
"Periodically look around the gaming table and ask yourself this question: Are
we having fun? If the answer is “yes,” don’t worry too much about pacing and
action. If your group is enjoying a long negotiation with a swaggering bugbear,
let the scene play out. If you look around and see players fiddling with
their dice, looking bored, or starting to get distracted, the answer must be a
resounding “no.” That’s when you need to make an adjustment, move the
adventure along, and help the players find the fun. When all else fails, have a
wandering monster show up, or have a villain kick in the door, or have some
other event occur to get the group back to the action."
YRUSirius
And:
"As much as possible, fast forward through the parts of an adventure that aren't fun. An encounter with two guards at the city gates is no fun. Tell the players they get through the gates without much trouble and move on to the fun.
...
Move the PCs quickly from encounter to encounter, and on to the fun."